Western Sky personal loans- have you seen the advertisements?
As I was doing research for a post on payday loans, I ran across the Western Sky Financial website. I had seen the ads for these personal loans on TV for the last year or so, but hadn't paid much attention since I teach people to avoid the bondage of debt.
But once I found their site and read the information about their personal loans and their business model, I knew I had to write about it.
I don't usually write about a particular business or personal loan product on my blog, but I felt that Western Sky Financial was “worthy”, and not in a good way.
Why?
Because (I'll choose my words carefully here), this is the riskiest personal loan product I've ever seen, bar none.
Personal Loans With a “Bite”
These are not like the payday loans that I've written about in the past. And they are nothing like car title loans either (see Jacksonville car title loans for more info on how those work). These are installment loans, meaning you borrow money and then pay a monthly payment until the debt is satisfied.
Pretty straightforward.
So why are these particular personal loans so bad?
Let me count the ways.
According to the “Terms of Use” page on the Western Sky Financial website:
“The interest rate on a typical loan of $2,600 is 135% with an APR of approximately 139%. Borrowers may prepay their loans at any time without penalty. There are no upfront fees. If you are approved and your loan is funded, we will collect a $75 loan origination fee from the proceeds of the loan.”
Wow! That's a big fee on top of a huge interest rate, and a bad deal to be sure. But that's only the beginning.
If you click over to the “Rates” page you get the whole story. Here are the rates I saw when I clicked on my home state of Tennessee:
| Loan Product | Borrower Proceeds | Loan Fee | APR | Number of Payments | Payment Amount | $10,000 | $9,925 | $75 | 89.68% | 84 | $743.49 | $5,075 | $5,000 | $75 | 116.73% | 84 | $486.58 | $2,600 | $2,525 | $75 | 139.22% | 47 | $294.46 | $1,500 | $1,000 | $500 | 234.25% | 24 | $198.19 | $850 | $500 | $350 | 342.86% | 12 | $150.72 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Loan Product | Borrower Proceeds | Loan Fee | APR | Number of Payments | Payment Amount | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| $10,000 | $9,925 | $75 | 89.68% | 84 | $743.49 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| $5,075 | $5,000 | $75 | 116.73% | 84 | $486.58 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| $2,600 | $2,525 | $75 | 139.22% | 47 | $294.46 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| $1,500 | $1,000 | $500 | 234.25% | 24 | $198.19 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| $850 | $500 | $350 | 342.86% | 12 | $150.72 |
Holy High Interest Rates Batman!
As you can see, these interest rates and fees are sky high; that's pretty obvious.
But let's make it a little more real by demonstrating just how some of these numbers add up. I'll start with the smallest loan on the “Rates” chart above.
Let's say you're in a bind and want a personal loan of $500 from Western Sky Financial. In order to get this loan they will charge you a $350 loan origination fee that is taken from the proceeds of the loan. That means that in order to get the $500 you need, you have to actually borrow $850.
Then an even better thing happens. They charge your an interest rate of 342.86% for the “privilege” of taking out the loan.
What the… are they serious?
Yes… yes they are.
So if you spread the payback over 12 months, that means your payment would be $150.72 per month. 12 payments of $150.72 add up to $1,808.64. In just 12 months, you had to pay back more than $1,800 in order to borrow that $500 that you needed.
That's INSANE!
But what if you want to borrow a larger sum of money, say $10,000?
According to their own numbers, the loan origination fee is $75, which means you only get $9,925. The interest rate is “only” 89.68%. When you pay that back over 84 months, your payment will be $743.49, which means you'll end up paying $62,453.16 for the privilege of borrowing that $10,000.
These Loans Are Outrageous!
All I can do at this point is shake my head and ask myself, “Do people really take out these outrageous personal loans?“
Obviously they do, or this business wouldn't exist.
Another interesting thing that I saw on the “Rates” page was the disclaimer that stated:
“Please be aware that not all applicants will qualify for every loan product or the lowest interest rate for a particular loan product.”
Wow, do the rates go even higher? I guess you can only find out by filling out an application.
So those are the numbers.
Crazy man, crazy…
Western Sky Financial is Not Bound by U.S. Law
As I continued through the site, I found something else very interesting and unusual. As it turns out, Western Sky Financial is owned by a Native American individual who is a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe, and the business is located within the boundaries of the Cheyenne River Sioux reservation.
Why is that important?
It's important because if you know anything about Native American reservations in the U.S., you know that they are considered to be sovereign nations that reside within the borders of the United States. Therefore, the “Terms of Use” page states that all loans are subject to the laws of the Cheyenne Sioux, and that no other state or federal laws apply. It reads as follows:
“All loans will be subject solely to the exclusive laws and jurisdiction of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, Cheyenne River Indian Reservation. All borrowers must consent to be bound to the jurisdiction of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribal Court, and further agree that no other state or federal law or regulation shall apply to this Loan Agreement, its enforcement or interpretation.”
This matters because the laws of the Cheyenne River Sioux may be substantially different than U.S. laws. I have no knowledge as to whether they are or not.
But think about it, if you are dumb enough, or desperate enough, to take out one of these personal loans in the first place, you may not protected by the U.S. legal system if you run into problems.
Western Sky Loans Can Get Ugly Real Fast
Now, I'm sure that the Cheyenne River Sioux are honest and have a fair and equitable legal system in place. But the fact is, unless you're familiar with that legal system, you have no idea what you're getting into.
You might as well take out a personal loan with a lender in India or China.
So I've said all that to say this: I believe and teach my followers that you should make every effort possible to get out of debt and stay out of debt. It's absolutely the best way to live your financial life.
In fact, I have a highly rated online course that teaches you how to do that. You can find out more about it here
But if you do take out any personal loans or other debt, you better know what you're getting yourself into, or it can get ugly really fast.
Question: Have you had any personal experience with Western Sky Financial and their personal loans?
Any experiences with other high interest lenders?
Tell me about it in the comments.
UPDATE: The Washington Post states that Western Sky will no longer lend money as of September 3, 2013! Looks like all the upset customers will finally have their day! I like to believe Celebrating Financial Freedom played a small part in bringing them down!
Resources:
How to Fix the 9 Most Common Financial Problems Your Family Faces
The Miracle (or Curse) of Compound Interest
Control Your Money and Your Destiny
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Unfortunately for me I also fell into this trap a few years back when I was going through a really rough time in my life they have the most convincing commercials and when you are signing up for one of these loans they don’t provide you with breakdown of how much the interest rate is going to be. I should have read the fine print on the loan because all I needed was $500 after the application loan of $350 that came up to $850 (which was never explained to me until after the loan was wired into my bank account. I paid the loan off for about 6 months and my interest rate kept rising and instead of being of assistance while going through a financial crisis I noticed I was never going to pay them off. After the 6th payment I closed my account and got a new bank moved to a different city because I couldn’t afford my life anymore after these scam artists made my life a living hell. Now after 2 years of non payment I’ve been getting harassing phone calls from Cash Call who I didn’t even know had anything to do with my Western Sky loan. I get calls at all times of the day and even after changing my number they seem to have some sneaky way of figuring out my new number because I got a call yesterday on my new number. After the nightmare they cost me and completely stopping my payments my life went back to normal. I got an amazing job that pays me well. Had to move back with my father to get back on my feet and finally can say I’m where I want to be financially. The call from cash call yesterday gave me a flashback and the person on the phone wanted to settle for $800 flat but I don’t get paid till next week and I told him if I could call next week.. He asked what time would be the best time to subpoena me….I didn’t give him the right address but after doing some research I saw all these posts and I honestly don’t think this could be legal.
Nathaly, I think their offer of $800 was pretty generous compared to other stories I’ve heard. However, many people have commented that once they thought they had paid off their loan, they were still being contacted and hassled for more money. It might be a good idea to hire a consumer lawyer to help get rid of this situation for good. It’s my opinion that these people are scumbags, and they will find every way they can to get every dollar they can from you.
I was a total idiot and took out a loan with Western Sky which turned into Delbert shortly after. I wish I would have done my research and never took the loan. My interest rate was 135% and only a few dollars of my $294 payment went toward the principal balance ($2964.11 interest payments and $33.18 applied toward Principal Amount over 9 months). This loan was driving me crazy and my husband said to just stop paying but my credit is on the up swing and i did not want to risk defaulting so I took out another loan with another company for a low interest rate and Paid those bastards off. By he time I paid them off (9 mos after I took he loan) I paid them a total of 5,915.74. Original loan amt was $2600. I’m pissed that they made a profit of $3,315.74, but its better than the 10,543.26 profit they would have collected had I made all 47 payments. I’m sad I had to take another loan to pay off this one but I’m so relieved to be rid of this company. I wish they where out of business. Taking advantage of people with bad credit like this really sucks. My credit was not good and I expected to pay higher interest as a result, something like 20% or 30% bu 135% is crazy as hell! I was a valuable lesson and I will never ever be that dumb again!
Actually, I think you made a wise decision to take out a loan to pay these guys off, as long as that loan was a sensible one. It just goes to show that you have to know exactly what you’re getting into when you take out a loan, especially if it’s from one of these companies that advertises to people with bad credit. That’s why I advocate for getting out of debt and never using credit again. Even if you’re deep in debt, you CAN get debt free over time with the right plan. It just takes time and diligence, and it’s a lot less painful than dealing with scumbags like these people.
If you want some info on how to make a solid plan to get out of debt, I wrote an entire series on how to do that. You can find it here: http://www.cfinancialfreedom.com/resources/the-how-do-you-get-out-of-debt-series/
I have a loan from Western Sky which turned into Cash Call and now Delbert. Start in June of 2011 and I stopped making payments in Feb. 2014. Original loan was $2,600 and I paid over $8,995. They say I still owe $3,000. I know it was wrong but my situation was desperate when I took the loan fully expecting to pay back in a month. Then lost job and took a while to get financially back on feet. Never missed a payment though and now I’m just drowning with this debt. I’m from Texas and according to Texas law payday loans are legal. I haven’t received any response yet from Texas Attorney General on if Texas has a cap on installment loans such as this. (I know payday loans don’t have a cap). Delbert is threatening to sue if I don’t pay up. They were willing to have loan go to 89% but keep making payments of $194 (I was making payment of $294.46). I have refused. They have received more than 3 times the original loan. I’m so upset that I did this and feel my only solution is to allow them to sue me and see if it does go to court that a judge would see that I have paid sufficiently. However, I have read of many situations where the court judgement was reduced significantly but the company kept charging the ridiculous % so it still never got paid off. I feel totally hopeless and don’t feel I’ll ever get out from this debt. Even when I offered to pay off last year they said it would take 10 days for my payment to be applied so they couldn’t tell me what the exact pay off would be. So I’d still owe money after I made the pay off payment. These people are the worst of the worst. I have learned my lesson and will never ever due business this way, even as if in my situation I had a death in the family and couldn’t pay for the funeral so I took out some money for this cause. Any counsel would be appreciative.
Probably your best bet at this point would be to contact a consumer affairs lawyer. They might be able to help figure out a path to get this taken care of. Obviously your getting screwed, and it will never be over until you completely pay off these crooks (which I don’t recommend) or take legal action.
I’ve read about a few people who have taken them to court and had the debt erased because of the way these companies do business.
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Hello Every One, My Name is Mrs Healther lcorn, i live in USA and life is worth living comfortably for me and my family now and i really have never seen goodness shown to me this much in my life as i am a struggling mum with three kids and i have been going through a serious problem as my husband encountered a terrible accident last two weeks, and the doctors states that he needs to undergo a delicate surgery for him to be able to walk again and i could not afford the bill for his surgery then i went to the bank for a loan and they turn me down stating that i have no credit card, from there i run to my father and he was not able to help, then when i was browsing through yahoo answers and i came across a loan lender Mr Martinz Lawler who provides loans at an affordable interest rate and i have been hearing about so many scams on the Internet but at this my desperate situation, i had no choice than to give it an attempt and surprisingly it was all like a dream, i received a loan of $45,000 USD and i payed for my husband surgery and thank GOD today he is okay and can walk and is working and the burden is longer so much on me any more and we can feed well and my family is happy today and i said to my self that i will shout aloud to the world of the wonders of GOD to me through this GOD fearing lender Mr Martinz Lawler and i will advise anyone in genuine and serious need of loan to contact this GOD fearing man via ( martinzlawlerloanz@gmail.com)and i want you all to pray for this man for me. Mrs Healther lcorn
what a bunch of deadbeats and whiners on this blog. No one forced any of you to take loan out in the first place, and if you dont like interest rates go to a bank like regular people. Oh wait, you cant because you dont pay your bills on time. Get a life people and take responsibility for once
"Delete"
impressive rate list
I have a western sky loan I’ve paid on for 2 years and my payoff is still higher than what I borrowed. I’m so sorry I ever did this. First my loan was serviced by cash call but now it’s with Delbert Services. I did live in Missouri but I’ve now moved to Washington. I thought I would not have this loan this long and would pay off early. today I checked the status selected different dates for pay off to see what the pay off would be, the payoff amount goes up by hundreds of dollars if I even pick a pay off date 2 weeks from now. Today it says my balances is 2400 and my payoff is over 2600 if I paid it off today. 2 years of payments and the pay off is more than I borrowed. I will never do this again once I get out of it. It’s horrible.
Let everyone who reads this be warned. Not good!
I have been doing a lot of research for some time on this and I have finally learned without doubt that Western Sky was not and is not a licensed lender in Missouri or Washington. I found this website and I am following the steps listed to end my nightmare. I’ve drafted the letter to the lender, gotten copies of my contract and the payment schedule showing what has been paid as well as all other pertinent information. I am stopping all withdrawals from my account with my bank as well as formally revoking my authorization with Delbert Services. I will let you know how it comes out.
Recently I was extremely low on cash and debts were eating me from all sides! That was UNTIL I decided to make money on the internet! I went to surveymoneymaker dot net, and started filling in surveys for cash, and surely I’ve been far more able to pay my bills! I’m so glad, I did this.. With all the financial stress these years, I really hope all of you will give it a chance. – 7iue
Hey Dr. Jason Cabler, Slkster here. love your posts and the encouragement you give to others. I commented on Rosa’s post seeing that she is also in Chicago IL. Seems like Illinois is joining the fight against Western Sky / Cash Call. 🙂
Yeah, seems like they’re getting a lot of attention in that state lately. I believe that’s probably just the beginning. I would bet they will start having trouble in every state they do business in the near future.
I hear you Dr., I mean don’t get me wrong, I think of myself as a very stand up type of person and I want to do the right thing and pay back what I borrowed but when it comes to a company / business trying to be sneaky and get as much as they can from someone illegally, then that’s what makes it wrong and people have to stand up for themselves and fight back.
I am going through the same thig just recently and they keep saying they are going to sue me. I can no longer keep making payments and try to make a payment plan but they won’t let me anymore. They say they are going to serve me soon. How do I go about this? I live in Chicago, IL.
Sounds like they are not going to work with you at all. Go ahead and let them serve you. I’ve heard of several people with that same story who were threatened with court but it never happened. If they do take you to court, do your research and cite some of the litigation that’s being taken against them in several states and find out if the rates they charge are even legal in your state. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the advice. I am suppose to receive the notice today or tomorrow I’m actually getting nervous about this.
Hi Rosa, I’m also in Chicago IL, going threw the same. Have you heard anything else about them? I think it’s all a scare tactic as described by most. Let me know. 🙂
Hi I too was taken in by western sky , which was transferred t o delbert I took out a loan in Florida, I made all my payments in time except for 3 payments that remain , I took out a $1500 loan and, after reading about these companies I put a stop payment from my bank and wrote to delbert asking them to cease and desist any and all communications regarding this loan. Im not sure what else I need to do can someone help.
Hi Rosa, It’s slkster. Good news I just recently found out by the Illinois Division Of Financial institutions that Western Sky / Cash Call is not a legal lender for the state of Illinois contact the Division and tell them your situation.
Sorry for the delay. How do I contact them? I wa just contacted today about being served by cook county.
Hi Rosa, dId you contact the Illinois Division Of Financial institutions? If not I’ll provide the number for you. When did you take out the loan with Western Sky/Cash Call? and you stated you got served with papers by cook county? Let me know.
I am also currently going through the same thing with western sky but they have sent it to a collection agency and have threatened to Have a arrest warrant served if we do not pay asap , is this legal, can they really do that or is it just a scare tactic
They can’t legally have you arrested for nonpayment of a debt. That’s a scare tactic. It’s also illegal to threaten to have you arrested. The best thing to do is to not answer their phone calls. They may eventually take you to court, but the general consensus of the people I’ve talked to is that they won’t do that. Hope this helps!
My name is Miss Maria from United State all my thank to Mr.Frank Bill who just gave me a loan amount of $ 20,000.00 today.i search all the Internet but i did not find any legitimate loan lender until a friend of my introduce me to him i applied and my loan was transferred to my account i will want you all to contact him now if you need a loan today email address is: richardjamesloancompany@gmail.com
http://legalnewsline.com/news/243209-georgia-ag-files-lawsuit-against-payday-lenders Here is what we all have been waiting for. Just because you’re Native American doesn’t make it ok to be a SCUMBAG
I LOVE it! I think these guys are gonna be in for a world of hurt!
Indeed, our AG is going for their jugular
My name is rumph. i have been looking for a loan for the past years now and no one was been able to lend me a loan until i get to meet a company called Parker Morison Funds who lend me the loan of $160,000 which i use to settle all my debt all thanks goes to the company, if you need a loan in any kind do not wast time to contact this company cause they will make you dream come to pass, kindly contact them now through this email at: Parkermorisonfunds@gmail.com once you contact them you will get your loan in a good faith from them.
actual fact, these loans ARE illillegal, and no state will enforce them in court. That’s why CashCall goes to the lengths they do to collect them. No teeth. I’ve checked various databases, and can find no lawsuits by CashCall to have a Western Sky loan enforced. Could Western Sky try taking someone to tribal court? Sure. But that’s no worry. This court’s orders are only valid on the reservation. No process server or law enforcement agency would bother to serve such an order. And the laws against unscrupulous collection tactics used by CashCall DO apply. Look it up on the net, you’ll find a Federal Statute in the US Code that forbids contacting a debtor who invokes it. Send a certified letter citing this law, and cashcall can only contact a debtor to say they’ll sue, or that collection efforts will cease. Hope that helps. Bob from Ohio
Great stuff to know Bob. Sounds like you’ve done your research. Where did you get all this info? I’d like to check it out for myself. Got any links you can send me?
Dr. My AG here in GA has filed the lawsuit yesterday. He is seeking to make all the loans from both western and cash all null in void and seeking damages against both orgs.
Awesome, I’d love to see that happen. If they are able to null the loans and get damages, the rest of the states will follow suit pretty quickly. I’d love to see these people go out of business. They serve no good purpose that I can see.
Do you need a loan?if yes,email us at:marygoodnews@outlook.com Name: AMOUNT: SEX: DURATION: OCCUPATION: COUNTRY: PHONE NUMBER:
Hi All: My name is Michael. I am a consumer rights attorney, and I have some good news: I am working on and investigating that possible lawsuit right now with a team of attorneys, against Western Sky / Cash Call and other lenders who I believe take advantage of people who are in financial trouble. I have spoken to many, many people with stories of these particular lenders charging massive interest rates and using harassing tactics to collect. I really do not like that they do that, and I am hoping we can put a stop to it. I would love to speak with you about your situation, to learn more and see if you have interest in the lawsuit we are now investigating. FYI, if you want, I created the email unfairloan@gmail.com (which I monitor and personally respond to) so that you can reach out to me if you would like. Just so you know, I am a real, person (lol); I am and are working with experienced consumer class action attorneys; and I am a down-to earth nice guy. I hope to speak by email and then by phone if you would like. Best, Michael [-_-]
Hello Michael, how can I get a hold of you?
I am currently going through a run in with Western Sky and their partner CashCall. I applied because the TV advertisement claimed to be better and cheaper than a payday loan, which are illegal in PA. Because of the advertisement I didn’t think that their product was not legitimate. I found out a few months later after talking to several people at my job about some shady moves that Western Sky pulled that their service is illegal in PA because 1. they are not licensed in the state to offer financial services, 2. their fees and interest rates are not in compliance with Pennsylvania regulations. Now how this tribal thing will pan out I have no idea but one of the DAG’s told me to shut down the bank account that they were drawing from after I told her how money they already received. Tribal lenders have been coming under fire within the past couple of years. They may have their own set of laws on the reservation but they are not above federal laws. Once they do business outside of the reservation they should be held accountable for abiding by the laws and regulations of whatever state they are transacting in. There is currently a bill that Senator Merkley is trying to get through Congress to stop these tribal lenders. The Federal Trade Commission is also conducting an investigation.
Wow! Sorry you had that experience with them. From my research, yours is a pretty typical story when it comes to dealing with those guys. I’m glad to see that at least one state, and hopefully the feds are looking into these lousy loans. I sincerely hope that you’ll stay away from any kinds of loans in the future. You don’t need them and you CAN learn to live debt free if you choose. Keep reading the blog and check out the materials I have to offer and you’ll learn all you need to know. By the way, my CFF get out of debt course will be available as an online course soon, so feel free to check back in a few weeks if you’re interested.
Hi Lisa: My name is Michael Berman, I am a consumer rights attorney, and I have some good news: I am working on and investigating that exact lawsuit right now with a team of attorneys, against Western Sky / Cash Call and other lenders who I believe take advantage of people who are in financial trouble. I have spoken to many, many people with stories of these particular lenders charging massive interest rates and using harassing tactics to collect. I really do not like that they do that, and I am hoping we can put a stop to it. I would love to speak with you about your situation, to learn more and see if you have interest in the lawsuit we are now investigating. What would be the best way to reach you? FYI, if you want, I created the email unfairloan@gmail.com so that you can reach out to me if you would like. Just so you know, I am a real, person (lol); I am and are working with experienced consumer class action attorneys; and I am a down-to earth nice guy. I hope to speak by email and then by phone if you would like. Best, Michael [-_-]
Interesting. I’d be interested to find out just how many people have taken loans from this company and how many are looking to sue. I’d also like to find out how a lawsuit would work against an indian tribe based business.
Wow, sorry for the trouble you’ve had. I believe this company has to be one of the worst in America, period. Taking advantage of people at that level is beyond unethical, and may even be illegal, indian tribe or not. I sincerely hope that you get from all this that what I believe and teach is absolutely true. That is that the best way to approach your financial life is to work hard at becoming debt free. Once you do, you don’t have to act out of desperation to take out loans that will put you in a much more serious bind than you were before you took out the loan. If you haven’t already, I would encourage you to take a look at my "How Do You Get Out of Debt?" series at this link: https://www.cfinancialfreedom.com/resources/the-how-do-you-get-out-of-debt-series
I too have a loan with Western Sky…….. Could you share with me your outcome with your situation?
That is tricky for sure and would allow service men and women to be trapped by such loans and not have the protection of US law from payday lenders.
Ugh, heap big bad medicine ! Or better yet, Redmans revenge! Wow ! Big tony the loan shark got nothing on these boys. To bad Western Sky not traded what a Roi.
Yeah, I guess they are profitable anyway. Don’t think I could do business that way.